Despite being exploitative, unfair, bad for business, downright unethical and even potentially illegal, is there still a place for logo contests in the design world?
Can an prudent contest business owner still get a decent logo for pennies on the dollar through a design contest site or forum? Outside chance – maybe. More likely – no. If you took the time to read our lengthy contest manifesto from yesterday, you’ll remember we introduced you to a new site – E Logo Contest – upstarts who boast offering hosted contests for less than the going rate for such things (they make it up by clawing back 10% off designer ‘winnings’).
Took a peek through a few of the contests currently running and waddya know – some of our work has been entered as potential logos for unsuspecting ‘clients’. The first, for some outfit called Big Dog BBQ features a nifty little bulldog logo, pinched right from our Daily Logo Archives. Dude didn’t even try to change it – same color and everything. Contest holder didn’t like our green (the cheek) and requested that it be converted to a rustic brown.
Then there’s this other one, obviously, ahm, ‘influenced’ by our boat logo for Euro Yacht, a design that was featured in a recent edition of the Logo Lounge book series. At least this guy tried a little, elongating the waves, twisting the hull, moving the portholes and cloning the windshield, although they were changes I was able to duplicate in Adobe Illustrator in about 30 seconds flat. But still – he did sort of try to make a variation of the original. Which would be kinda okay if this wasn’t a trademark, which unfortunately, it is. Alas, the contest holder on this one felt the boat wasn’t ‘professional’ enough (more cheek) and supplied a link were a new one could be found. Hey, the original client thought the boat was just dandy.
But here’s the scary part – I was able to find two examples of skullduggery within a few minutes. By different entrants – not some ‘lone rogue’ designer. Like I always said – some folks entering design contests aren’t above submitting ripped-off designs because they aren’t getting paid for the work they do. If their purloined logos win – they get a prize. If they don’t win, no big deal – they haven’t spent any time coming up with the entries in the first place.
Not saying that everyone who enters work into logo design contests are ripping off other designers, but if my experience counts for anything, it is quite a few. And if you’re new to business, is branding yourself with a hot logo any way to start off? Didn’t think so.
And it’s not like these dudes aren’t aware that this is a problem with using logo design contests as a business model – they very much are. Let’s take a look at their somewhat logic-mangled and strangely worded TOS;
eLogoContest processes lots of different graphics for lots of different contests, and although we have many very, very ethical designers, there is sometimes (as in any walk of life) the individual without any scruples that has no problem attempting rip off other peoples artwork.
One of the great things about eLogoContest is that unlike a conventional design firm, where design theft can go completely undetected, eLogoContest is an open community and where better to spot design plagarism than in a large community of experienced designers?
If you feel that a design of yours (yours – not someone elses) has been used without permission by one of our registered designers we would like to make you aware of the following:
eLogoContest is a independent ‘middle-man’ and makes no claims whatsoever as to the originality of any user-submitted content.
Read it again. No claims whatsoever about originality of content. From contests that they’re charging a fee for. And 10% off the top from designer winnings. Yep – I’m just full of confidence now. They go on to ask that if a design has been bootlegged, to contact them and advise us to “be polite. It is not the fault of eLogoContest staff that your design has been copied”. Well, it kinda is. It’s a problem with the business model itself. And something that can’t ever be overcome when people aren’t getting paid for their design work. Though, we should be flattered I guess – we’re also featured on the other design options that suck page. Nice touch fellas.
Logo Contest Survival Guide.
In the interest of fair play, I’m going to give people who still insist on holding a logo contest a few tips on how to avoid getting stuck with someone else’s logo (which I think we can all admit, is never a good idea). Here’s how it works.
Whenever less than ethical (bunny quotes on) ‘designers’ (bunny quotes off) enter these things, they immediately use Google and Google Image Search (Yahoo & MSN have them too) to search for designs that suit your project using keyword combinations that would describe it (the examples above, for example, scored extremely well – number one actually – for searches including bulldog, boat and logo). They look for an image they like and it you’re lucky, they’ll change it a little so that it won’t be recognized by anyone but the owner and/or the original designer. And there’s about a 50/50 chance one of them will find out. If they do, whether these design changes will be enough to pass a legal challenge is anyone’s guess. If you’re not so lucky, they’ll pass someone else’s logo, unchanged very little (or not at all) as their own. Then, a lot of people will notice, raising the threat level of getting into hot water to almost 100%.
Accordingly, you should perform the same searches using the resources I just mentioned. When you’re appraising logos, search through Google Images using the various keyword combinations and descriptions that describe the logo your contest is supposed to be about. If you’re lucky, you’ll find any potentially infringing designs before things get too out of hand. Before you’re stuck with thousands of business cards and letterheads that you can’t use, because you’ve plastered them with a design that belongs to someone else. And before the nasty e-mails start arriving.
Or, you could avoid logo design contests altogether. Probably a much better idea.
Related posts:
- More Logo Design Contests
- Defending crowdsourcing & design contests. The platitudes of spec work.
- Are logo design contests really that bad?
- Logo Design Contests – Bad for Business
- Again with the design contests
Tags: Contests, crowdsourcing, spec, spec work
I can’t say I’m surprised to see your work being ripped off in logo design contests. Sad, really.
[...] Just a few reasons why logo design contests don’t work, from Steve of the Logo Factor. Fraud logo designers are ripping off his work and submitting it into design contests. Not for the first time either. [...]
I’m so SICK of “contests,” spec work ads and exploitative practices! You wouldn’t believe how nasty some “contest holders” are when confronted with the unethical nature of their inquiries. This article is very well documented. I’ll be linking to it from my website and sending it as (my less emotional/more rational
response.
Thanks!
Two things. There is one place where logo contests work – small community contests. Course I ‘won’ my first logo contest at the age of 11 designing a dance troupe logo for a local group. The community was also less than 2000 people and this was before computers. But contests where local people, kids mostly, offer designs for local community group contests, probably kid oriented, I find is community building. But when a Clear Channel owned radio station in a huge market uses a logo design contest to get a new logo for the cost of a free t-shirt, they should be shot!
Second thing. When I am asked to design a logo, I use search engines as you described to see the trends and to avoid other people’s work. I find my train of thought is on a par with other designers sometimes and have noticed some of my designs look like they were inspired by other’s when it was complete accident. I don’t always know who designed what first, but in the long run it doesn’t matter. I usually don’t notice similar design until years later, either, but it sucks when I see it. So I use the internet to make sure I don’t utilize a similar idea to what is already out there. I, at least, always want to be the one being copied, not to look like it was the other way around.
Trish
http://www.contemporary-native.com
David
I’m not terribly surprised either. Not the first time that I’ve found blatant copies of our shop’s work submitted to design contests, nor do I expect it will be the last. Unfortunately, having copied work submitted is part and parcel of the logo contest business model itself and something that’s impossible to guard against. If you read the terms and conditions of these logo contest sites, you’ll find that contest holders are told about this risk up front (though I’m not sure how legally solid these caveats are).
Business owners have to assess the risk of selecting a ripped off design, and decide if it’s worth the money they might save over more traditional methods such as working with a designer like yourself.
Personally, I’d rather be sure that my logo is original – the expense of cleaning up the mess caused by IP problems – copyright and/or trademark infringement – doesn’t seem to be worth whatever benefits that there might be.
Trish
Thanks for dropping by and taking the time to comment. Your Clear Channel example is spot on. Like you, my first professional gig was designing a logo as part of a contest, held by my high school radio station (was 14 and I won $100 if memory serves). I’m not opposed to these kind of gigs and you’re right – they can create a sense of ‘community’.
Setting up a website featuring logo contests as a ‘professional’ design solution is another matter entirely. I take issue when these sites (who’ve somehow managed to convince large numbers of designers that working for free is beneficial) offer up their business model as a ’service’ that’s comparable (or even superior) to working with an experienced designer or firm. As the examples of ripped off logos illustrate, it’s not even close.
When deflecting criticism they generally tell us that it’s no big deal – their sites are populated by ‘newbies’ and ‘hobbyists (direct quotes) – something which they fail to mention when promoting their ’services’ to unsuspecting business owners. From the hop, their business model is dishonest and when you factor in the ongoing issue of copied work, it’s a model that hurts the reputation of the entire trade.
Catherine
Thanks for popping by The Factor.
Alas, I would believe the push back you’ll run into if you try to open a dialogue with ‘contest holders’ – we’ve experienced the same type of hostility when responding to ‘clients’ who request we work up logo concepts on spec, or in order to earn future, undefined design work. Apparently the old adage ‘time is money’ refers to everything but design.
Thanks for linking to our site – greatly appreciated.
I don’t understand what the big deal is. If you find a logo that has been copied, why don’t you just inform the contest site and I am sure they will remove the design.
I’ve entered many contests and even won a few. I’ve never ripped off anyone but there have been times when others have and they have been discovered by other designers on the forum. The designs have been withdrawn from the contest and the contest holder never knew.
Entering contests makes me a better designer. I just think that The Logo Factory and other designers are jealous that sites like 99designs and elogocontest are taking business away from them.
But that’s how market forces work.
Contest Lover
Thanks for your comments. I take it your name reflects a position on this issue, and it shouldn’t surprise you that I’m going to disagree. To be honest, I don’t have time to ‘investigate’ every logo contest to see if stuff has been borrowed from us, or more importantly, our clients (though I can find ripped logos so easily, and which such little effort, the percentage of contests that feature borrowed work must be extraordinary).
You’re correct though – site owners remove infringing designs PDQ (the two examples I’ve posted above were removed shortly after the feature was published). This isn’t to protect the integrity of the contest holders’ work – it is to avoid the site looking ‘bad’. Comments regarding stolen work are deleted as soon as they’re viewed by moderators so that holders (hopefully) aren’t aware that submissions may not be original.
While you tell us of other ‘entrants’ finding examples of copied work in the nick of time, there have been times when stolen artwork is selected as the ‘winner’. I’m aware of one such incident on Site Point (who’ve recently spawned 99 Designs, yet another contest site) from a few years ago where the knock off wasn’t discovered until after the ‘contest’ had ended. Luckily, another copied design (submitted by the same designer to another contest) was discovered before a selection was made. Both these screencaps are from 2004, so knocked off logos finding their way into contests is nothing new, nor is my opposition to them.
Problem is, none of these sites accept responsibility for shady work getting passed off. Read their terms and conditions – they claim that they’re not responsible (a claim that’s highly suspect) for the material submitted as (and this is the important part) the contest entrants don’t work for the contest site. As the owner of The Logo Factory, I’m ultimately responsible for everything that goes out the door (whether I’m aware of the individual project or not). If my shop was to pass off ripped designs, whatever reputation we do have would be shot in a New York minute. Why do logo contest sites think that this type of responsibility should not apply to them? Other designers and firms readily (and enthusiastically) accept responsibility for, and stand behind, the work they create. Accordingly, for logo contest sites to claim they’re a professional alternative to working one-on-one established designers, studios and firms. is a a little bit much. E Logo Contest, the site from which the examples were pulled, compare themselves to our shop (and others), prefacing the comparison thusly;
In terms of logo contest sites ’stealing our business’, I’ve always admitted that’s a concern. As it should be for any anyone involved in the graphic design industry. Especially when contest sites promote themselves as a superior alternative to working with designers one-on-one, which is demonstrably not true. While others might claim that contest sites attract the type of clients that they don’t want in the first place (a claim which might have some validity), I’ve always seen organized logo contests as a danger to the professional in general and my studio in specific. As a business owner, I’d be an idiot not to.
From a more altruistic POV. I also see the damage being done to the entire industry and up and coming designers who are – right now – spending years of their life, and tens of thousands of dollars, on an education that hopefully will make them great designers. To have these efforts paid off through design contests, where they stand very little chance of earning a decent living, is obscene. And while there may be some ‘designers’ who claim that entering contests prepares them for later entry into the professional design arena, if the people behind these sites have their way, there won’t be much of an industry to enter into.
Crikes. These cats make Logoworks look good.
Keep hammering Stevo!
I personally don’t understand why someone would want an impersonal logo from a logo mill. Part of my logo design for a client is to find out everything I can from a client, about them, their business, their dreams, their customers, their hopes for the future of their business, and so on. Do designers who submit to logo mills do this? How can they design a logo with as much care and dedication as the client has for their business? We are talking about a symbol that represents in whole the client and/or their business. This symbol/logo should represent the client’s personality, their business personality and make their customers smile when they see it. Logo design is not about slick, trendy design, nor it is about the designer, it is about the CLIENT.
Logo Contest Lover – you say that logo design contests make you a better designer. I need some help here – how does that work? You are doing no one a favor participating in a contest. Just an opinion.
Contests and spec work are no doubt bad for the industry, the client, and are generally annoying to deal with when searching for work. The AIGA has a nice form letter on their website that can be used to send to potential clients who are facilitating contests or are flat out asking for spec work. I, like many of the other commenters here, have gotten very nasty responses when informing potential clients that their behavior is ethically questionable and not a good idea. The AIGA letter seems effective in communicating the designer’s perspective through rational argument. I highly suggest everyone use it. Thanks for the great article!
[...] small businesses. I’ve generally spoken out against design contests as being exploitative, a poor way to obtain decent design, a cesspool of copyright infringement, bad for business and generally harmful for the design [...]
A brief introduction: I do print design and marketing for a small non-profit. Your (and others’) objections to this kind of work are mostly valid IMO, but I thought I’d add a different perspective if you’re up for it.
Design contests are by no means a modern invention. St. Peters, 400 years ago, was originally designed in such a manner (though Raphael and Michaelangelo took over for Bramante, the winner, as the 120 year project wore on). Contests are still popular in architecture though, and architects still “speculate” with their time in this way. Good designs can come out of contests, architecture or otherwise (acknowledging how different arch. is from logo design).
The internet, admittedly, has changed a lot of how certain part of business is done. It’s easier for shady designers to ‘borrow’ other work now, but it’s also easier to verify whether certain designs infringe on other designer’s work. Moreover, it seems easier and easier to birth a brand for which a person or start-up needs an identity, which results in more and more images thrown into the mix. There are only so many ways to create a sound logo; there are only so many ways to use circles, squares, icons of bulldogs before the myriad of new designs begin to look like old designs and some designer gets his or her feelings hurt.
This happened a year or two ago with the launch of Data Portability. They had a new logo on the up-and-up (AFAIK), and it just happened to look to much like one of Red Hat’s images. Both used the infinity symbol. Personally, as a designer, I thought the two were different enough and that Red Hat was making too much of a fuss. But Data Portability did the easy thing and conceded by holding a contest to find a new design.
All of this is to say that I wonder if you’re going about your campaign, of sorts, against contest design from the wrong angle. Granted, I’ve only read this one entry and don’t know if you’ve qualified yourself in other posts, but the language you use here is pretty strong. Perhaps instead of outright condemning contests you should put energy into highlighting how they could best be done.
Because in all likelihood both contests and the oft-despised spec work are around to stay, whether designers like it or not.
Looks like these logo design contests let clients get logo designs for next to nothing …then again they can be worth next to nothing or even cost them if they are stolen and the original owner finds out.
[...] há o factor plágio, como constatado, na primeira pessoa, pela The Logo Factory. Muitos dos “designers” registados em sites de crowdsourcing [...]
Amazingly, the state college here in Idaho has their graphic design students participate each year in the Idaho State Lottery’s ticket design contest. It was to include not on the design of the ticket but the radio and tv ad scripts as well. As an assignment! All of the design schools in Idaho are “invited” to participate. I tried to speak with the instructor about how wrong our participation is but she said that she had it worked into the semester lesson plan and it was great experience for the students. To me it seems as if she was just putting her stamp of approval on spec work.
One student refused to sign the waiver giving all rights to the work to them, whether a winning entry or not. The said when quizzed by the class that they can do anything they want with the winning ticket design. When the instructor revealed the winners, she told the class that the judges said he would have taken second place but since he wouldn’t sign the release ahead of time, he was ineligible. I didn’t win, but I saw an almost identical ticket to the one I submitted, for sale in a store about 7 months later. I got to looking around and sure enough, many of the tickets that year were based on the designs submitted from fellow students. They give tiny “cash prizes” to the winners and the grand prize winner has their name printed in micro print on the ticket. They sure have a great deal going.
I have read your argument against spec work and logo contests, and I understand your not wanting clients encouraged to think of professional-level design for commercial purposes as a service they’re entitled to have for free, or to risk infringing copyrights on existing designs. I have myself been a professional designer and production artist for over two decades, and I do expect to be paid for my work when the arrangement is such.
That said, I am also an active science-fiction and fantasy fan and have worked on a number of clubs and convention staffs for fans of the genre, and chosen to donate my work to these organizations, even to the point of designing and laying out program book covers, newsletters and other items and creating logos. I have done this with the understanding at the outset that I am donating my time and talent for the use of these non-profit organizations, in perpetuity and not expecting them to pay me one thin dime for any and all future uses of the work. I chose to do this because I was part of an all-volunteer group and knew they were usually working on a very slender shoestring, and could never have afforded a standard commercial rate had I chosen to demand it. Is this wrong? Have I been screwing over guys like you all these years without meaning to?
And as for contests, again I understand the concerns and do not by any means dismiss them. But what about one of those young college-student designers, or one just out of college, that have been mentioned here? They may have very few, if any, other avenues to get work out there and actually generate paying work, being caught in the vicious cycle many of us remember from our own early careers: having no out-of-school, real-world experience means no one will give you paying work, and getting no work means you can’t gain the needed experience. If they know and accept the rules going in, can’t logo contests be one way for such people to break out of the cycle and have actual, published work to add to their portfolios? Or would you rather they try another way, and what way?
[...] 99Designs. And it’s not just Design Outpost, Crowdspring or 99Designs. There’s also this incident. And this one too. I think it’s safe to say that logo contest and design crowdsourcing [...]
Is Nafta responsible for the outsourcing and theft ? Is technology going to kill the graphic design business?
I don’t argue at all with the concern for contests practically begging for stolen work. I’ve seen it happen with my own designs being ‘borrowed.’ What troubles me more though, is that the contest eliminates the most important aspect of identity design, the interaction of client and designer. My best designs almost always arise from a collaborative effort. I don’t mean to insult the disabled, but it is RETARDED to think you can create a functional and evocative visual symbol for a business or other enterprise without an extensive client-designer conversation.
[...] at this point I usually launch into my anti-contest screed. Logo contests are bad for business.. don’t work.. clients and designers get ripped.. not a professional solution. Yaddy. Yadda. Yadda. Alas, [...]
I am SO GLAD to read this!! I saw that logo contest website a few weeks ago and said to myself “WTF?!”… why would a real designer throw away their hours and intellectual property onto a website for the whole world too see?? and of course there’s the copyright issues and the COPYCAT ridiculousness.. nice to see a company/website speaking out.. i think companies looking for logos need to better appreciate the relationship between company and designer… and that a “contest” in any form of art is a big no-no
@ Missa – Thanks for dropping by and thanks for taking the time to comment. WTF indeed…
I think this debate is interesting. What do you folks think about websites like Threadless, and some of the other t-shirt design competitions that have followed their lead? Hundreds of designers submit their work but only a few are chosen as shirts. The site would not work without the hundreds that are not chosen.
Threadless is basically creating work for designers – and is a chance for them to gain recognition…. but they are using designers to push the Threadless brand that has evolved.
Where is the fine line?
Your argument fails in a couple points I see repeated over and over in these posts on logo contests.
1. I have no more protection from a designer using a stolen logo in traditional relationship than I do on a contest. Only with a contest there are dozens of other designers who have every reason to eliminate cheats.
2. The association of charging a fee for a service with “wrong”. There is a good thing that contests provide. It insulates the contest holder against the shenanigans I have dealt with many times in the past, that of an artist who refuses to turn over the copyright after being paid, or who demands half up front and never delivers. To a lesser (much less) degree it also protects the winner from the company refusing payment. This is a service which has a value. There is nothing wrong with charging for this service.
Once you remove the indignation at this fee, and the “but it might be copied” problem, there’s not a lot left to your argument beyond “I feel it is morally wrong”
Lots of people feel abortion is wrong. It’s an opinion, in this case hugely biased by your position as someone who stands to loose a lot of money to this new model.
@ Artemis – thanks for responding and offering your opinion. Of course I’m biased. As are you. That has no bearing on the accuracy of anything I say. Or anything you say. We all use confirmation bias to make our arguments. Such is the nature of debate.
In terms of protection from a designer using a stolen logo in a ‘traditional’ relationship as opposed to a contest, you may have a point, save a few issues. In terms of our studio, one might expect to receive copied work if, when hiring designers, I were to post a sign on our front door inviting anyone to “come on in, design work for our clients and (maybe) get paid” as is the case with design contest sites. Obviously, that doesn’t happen and all our designers are carefully vetted and interviewed before being hired. In terms of freelance designers trying to develop their own practices and careers, they are far more invested in their reputation than some anonymous user name on some design contest website.
In a traditional relationship you are also protected civilly and if a designer supplies you with a stolen logo, you have legal recourse. All design contest sites specifically waive that responsibility and their “middle man” positioning makes it difficult, and legally expensive, to sort out culpability. And if you believe you have as much recourse with an anonymous designer half-way around the world as you do with the graphic design firm three blocks away, you’re sadly mistaken.
I’m of the belief that few designers or design firms would risk their reputations, or employment, in order to shave off a few hours from their work week. It’s a risk vs. reward equation that is pretty sound from a logic POV. And if my logic isn’t solid enough for you, we’ve more than enough examples throughout our blog that illustrates how work copied from our site and our clients keeps finding its way into contests. Including the very post that you’re commenting on.
In terms of design contests being monitored by other participants for “cheats” you might have a point, if it weren’t for the number of WINNING entries that AREN’T picked up. Further, no designer can be familiar with every stock art, Google Image search and portfolio website out there. And why should we expect participating designers to wade through sometimes hundreds of design submissions, tracking down every image and check almost unlimited avenues for copied work. And even if we do expect it, it is simply not possible. And even further – why would you expect designers to police logo design contests, when they’re not getting paid, as opposed to the contest site owners, who are?
Nowhere did I ever say that charging for a service is “wrong”. In fact, just the opposite. I’ve always maintained that designers who supply clients with a service should charge for that service. And should get paid. While you defend the owners of design contest sites for charging “buyers” and “clients” for services, I find it odd that you aren’t similarly moved to defend the rights of designers to get paid for supplying their services as well.
Do I believe that it is “morally wrong” to not pay young designers for supplying work to contest sites, often signing over a significant portion of the rights to that work? Of course. Just as I believe it’s wrong to exploit anyone through abuse of unpaid labor. I didn’t notice any opposing viewpoint in your comment, so we’ll leave that for now.
In terms of “losing a lot of money to this new model” If I honestly believed that design contest sites are good for designers, good for clients, good for the industry (and profitable to boot) I’d be busy setting up my own logo design platform rather than blathering on some blog.
I run a small design shop, staffed by people who have extensive backgrounds in design and online marketing, so converting my custom shop to a so-called design “crowdsourcing” platform would be a relatively easy transition. If I were only concerned about how this issue effects my bottom line, and thought contest sites were an ethical way to improve it, I’d have launched a logo design contest site years ago, and rather than debating with you on a blog, I’d be defending designer’s right to work for free. For me. If I didn’t want to start my own platform, I’d fire the designers that work for me and sub-contract our work through contest sites at a mark-up. Or I’d use the extensive library of unused design work we possess to “flood” design contests with potentially winning entries. All of which would probably be more profitable than what we do now. Alas, I think the picture is a little bigger than that which effects me personally or financially.
Not exactly sure how design contests can be dovetailed into the abortion debate, so I’m going to leave that part of your comment unchallenged.
Hello Steve,
In stance of my anti design contest view, I have posted my opinions on spec work, with reference to yours (as you would know by now):
The “Pros” and Cons of Spec Work
Thought I would share the link with others who come to this page.
@ Jason – Saw your post this morning. Good read (I booted it around Twitter as well). Thanks for the mention and the links.