Ebay logo auctions
Business owners turning to auction site Ebay for logo design services was always a little perplexing. Not that I have anything against Ebay itself and have been, at many times, an enthusiastic Ebay shopper. During the occasional bidding frenzy, I’ve purchased everything from model train accessories and R/C helicopters to obscure 12-inch vinyl singles and Star Wars toys - but logo design auctions seemed, at the risk of sounding snobby or elitist, a tad unseemly. Other than the opportunity of getting a so-called ‘logo’ for a low-bid price, what would be the real benefit to the ‘client’? Alas, probably none. Hell, you can’t even be sure that the ‘designer’ you’re dealing has the graphic bona fides they’re boasting.
Over the years, we’ve been involved in a constant cat-and-mouse game with so-called ‘designers’ who pinch logo samples off our site, throw them up on an Ebay auction page, and hoist a shingle offering ‘professional logo design’ services. Comes with the usual online logo design malarkey - unlimited revisions, etc, etc. Dealing with this nonsense became so time-consuming - and the steps involved to get a ‘take down’ notice issued so daunting - I threw in the towel a few years back (and never even wrote about it until now). Despite the teeth-grinding gall of it all, I had more important stuff to deal with, and at the end-of-day viewed these auctions as a massive illustration of Caveat Empor. You buy $50 logo design services off Ebay at your own peril.
Looks like things haven’t changed a bit. Went on Ebay this morning, typed in the search phrase ‘logo design’ and within two clicks had found a seller who had ‘borrowed’ logo design samples off our site, slapped them on an Ebay page and fired up an auction offering $29 design services. Somewhat cheeky granted - in a case of breathtaking irony the image was nicked from our our copyright page! - but is this really a big deal? Small picture - no. On a case-by-case basis (the example above included) it’s more of an annoyance than anything else. But it does involve some issues that might just be a ‘big deal’.
Property rights notwithstanding, a designer’s samples are a calling card of sorts, illustrating how they tackled this or that project and more importantly, showing potential clients what the designer is capable of. If you’re using someone else’s design work as examples of your own, it’s design fraud - you’re not capable of creating the work you’re claiming (or you would have already done it). And if you’re not capable of assembling a few (in this case, 9) examples of your own work for a portfolio piece, then you’re not a designer. And if you’re not a designer, then you shouldn’t be offering ‘professional design services’ on Ebay, or anywhere else for that matter. At least if ‘professional’ is meant to indicate a certain level of proficiency rather than simply ‘bought and paid for’. And not that these folks care, but this kind of amateur-hour nonsense pollutes the graphic design industry for people who do.
If a ‘client’ is buying logo design services through Ebay auctions (and business owners really should know better) then - all obvious risks aside - they should still be able to gauge a sellers talents and skills by the work presented. Not someone else’s. Which leads us to the heart of the matter - if any ‘designer’ is willing to misrepresent their background, are they really going to provide a decent design for $79? Is it going to be an original work, or something knocked-off from someone else’s trademark?
When presented with this argument, business owners may be tempted to use the ‘it’s only’ rationale. As in it’s only $50. Or it’s only $79. Ordinarily, I’d agree with sentiment. Over the years I’ve risked paltry sums for the outside chance that the deal is legit. Some of the times I’ve been pleasantly surprised with a killer bargain. More often, my gut reaction was bang-on and had to use the ‘it’s only’ defense when questioned by my ever-so-patient better half.
Unfortunately, logo design is different. When you receive your wonderful new mark, it is the beginning of it’s usefulness, not the end. The design may have only set you back $70, but your new letterhead and business card printing will add to the expense. The embroidered golf shirts will cost hundreds. The vehicle wrap thousands. The packaging design lots of thousands. And so on. As it turns out, that $79 logo runs the risk of costing you a lot more money than you paid for it. The ‘it’s only’ defense doesn’t apply.
In terms of the really big picture, these kind of antics blur the borders between decent graphic designers trying to make a living, and hacks out to make a quick buck. Due to arguably fraudulent marketing, it’s becoming increasingly difficult for ‘clients’ to tell the two apart. Am I saying that all folks offering up logo design auctions are charlatans? Of course not. But if my experience over the years counts for anything, a lot of them are. How does someone the difference?
Unfortunately, I don’t have the foggiest idea.
April 6th, 2008 at 2:12 am
I own and operate HiTech Paradise, when designing our auction I grabbed these images straight from our database. I believe these images came from a supposedly legal collection of clipart, that we purchased for our company. Once this error was discovered, the images have been removed. The Logo Factory provides a honest service and we at HiTech Paradise strive to do the same.
April 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Thanks for dropping by Jonathon. I appreciate you removing samples of TLF work from your ebay logo auction, though your explanation still doesn’t negate my main point - using other people’s work (whether it came from a ‘clip art collection’ or not) as examples of what your company is capable of is, at best, misleading. You’re laying claim to skills and experience that belong to someone else, and insinuating that similar logos can be developed for $29. They cannot, without resorting to ‘clip art’ and other methods which don’t square with ‘professional logo design’ or custom logo work’. In any case, I’ve removed the link to your company’s website - I’m not out to embarrass anyone, only to protect The Logo Factory’s clients and design integrity. For what it’s worth we have never authorized any TLF design work for ‘clip art collections’. Nor will we.
April 6th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Our auction showed examples of the kind of logo they can expect to receive. It was an accurate representation then and now.
In as friendly way as possible I disagree on some of the statements. Unless you hand draw every single aspect of a design, you must be using some sort of clipart. A good example is a font, which ofcourse was created by someone else and used for logos everyday. The word clipart is very generic. Our claims of unlimited revisions on a professional design are absolutely accurate. And if I have clipart that can be used in some way to aid in the process of making their design, then I will. I see where you coming from with “custom logo design” The final product from any custom work we do, is completely unique and unresembling other works. Our $49 deal is a promotion and generates busy work now and then. I agree there are not many designers willing to devote the time it takes for a professional logo for that price. Ultimatly a winner of our auctions receive personallized attention and an unresting pursuit of the best logo for the customers needs. Keeping in mind fresh, unique, and professional ideas. Any graphic I design, can be considered clipart 5 secs after I make it, regardless of the quality, size, or length of time spent on it.
At the end of the day I have to respect that our meeting, was definately to a negative tone ON OUR Behalf, so again I apologize for the situation. You have a great website here and a good place for people to come that are lookind for honest good ole fashion design.
April 7th, 2008 at 12:50 am
So now it’s the ‘kind of logo’ your customers can expect? Parse it however you like - your auction featured examples of someone else’s work as examples of your own. Not only is that unethical (by any standards I know) but quite possibly copyright and/or trademark infringement, regardless if I buy the ‘clip art collection’ explanation or not - which by the way, I don’t. It is not an “accurate representation” of what your company has done, nor is it an “accurate representation” of what you’re capable of. Rather, it is indicative of what The Logo Factory has done, and what our designers are capable of. If you can’t understand why showcasing another designer’s work in your portfolio is a big deal, you’re missing the point of showcasing design samples in the first place. So indulge me as I try to explain this fairly simple premise again.
Showcasing one’s logo design examples is a way to show prospective clients what a designer or design studio is capable of. It allows a designer to advertise their skills and hopefully generate new business. You decided to bypass this right of passage by using other designers’ work to advertise your business and to generate sales for your company. From a small picture POV it’s annoying as hell to the original designers. You’re taking credit for their work. From a big picture POV - you’re adding to the public perception that anyone can design logos for a few bucks - after all, the logos that you exhibited are as good as what a professional design shop would put out for hundreds more (the irony should be self-evident). Not a big deal to you - considering logo design ‘busy work’ - but a pretty big deal to the graphic design community. You’re also lying to your own ‘customers’ regarding your logo design experience. All of which, by the way, are reasons why I suggest business owners avoid ebay logo auctions like the plague - as per my original blog post.
Bottom line - if you’re so proud of your $49 design services, then why aren’t you showcasing examples of your own work? Not logos ripped from a ‘clip art collection’. Not other designers’ work. Your own. If you had used your own logos in the first place, or simply removed our artwork when you were asked (you didn’t ‘discover’ this error - you were advised that these were TLF designs before I wrote my original post), we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
In regards to clip art and its use in logos, you seem to be struggling with an understanding of the concept - so here’s a look at clip art and why it’s a bad idea for use in any logo. While you’re here, you can read why unlimited logo revisions is a myth.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
What a crock. Dude gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar and he tries to advertise his services on the very same site the designs got stolen from?!!!
Jonathon, you should have quit while you were ahead.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Is this really such a big deal? I mean one ebay logo auction isn’t really going to harm professional designers is it? it seems to me that designers time would be better spent perfecting their craft that moaning about one little auction that may have used someone elses designs. All of this seems to me like a big waste of time and blog space.